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	<title>Comments on: Not By Works?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/</link>
	<description>FIERY WORSHIP.  BOLD TEACHING.  FERVENT PRAYER.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 14:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nick Weisenfels</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Weisenfels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-37</guid>
		<description>I was also thinking about this part of your post, and not because I found it "offensive":

"I think the same comments could be made about the majority of American Christians today… if attendance wasn’t being taken; if it wasn’t your week to be on the “Visitation Team”, or your week to work the nursery - or if your momma or your peer from work wouldn’t notice you had missed two weeks in a row……. how many of us are truly motivated out of a fear of the Lord, and out of love for Him - versus being motivated by people’s opinion of us?"

Anyway, are we not put here on earth in community and to live in community? How can we know that our motivation to go to church because of what our momma might think is really a bad thing in the long run? At least we are in church, and this being in church might be the thing that ultimately keeps us in relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Sometimes our relationships, even with God, become at times sort of mechanical, like we are doing it out of reflex rather than out of desire. But a good habit is still a good habit. Being in church is better than not being in church, no matter what the reason. I was once told, by a young woman who is wise beyond her years:

"When you walk into a perfume store, you come out smelling like perfume. It is the same thing when you enter the house of God, even if you were having trouble paying attention."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was also thinking about this part of your post, and not because I found it &#8220;offensive&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the same comments could be made about the majority of American Christians today… if attendance wasn’t being taken; if it wasn’t your week to be on the “Visitation Team”, or your week to work the nursery - or if your momma or your peer from work wouldn’t notice you had missed two weeks in a row……. how many of us are truly motivated out of a fear of the Lord, and out of love for Him - versus being motivated by people’s opinion of us?&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyway, are we not put here on earth in community and to live in community? How can we know that our motivation to go to church because of what our momma might think is really a bad thing in the long run? At least we are in church, and this being in church might be the thing that ultimately keeps us in relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Sometimes our relationships, even with God, become at times sort of mechanical, like we are doing it out of reflex rather than out of desire. But a good habit is still a good habit. Being in church is better than not being in church, no matter what the reason. I was once told, by a young woman who is wise beyond her years:</p>
<p>&#8220;When you walk into a perfume store, you come out smelling like perfume. It is the same thing when you enter the house of God, even if you were having trouble paying attention.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nick Weisenfels</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Weisenfels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-36</guid>
		<description>The Bible says that "faith without works is dead."

The Bible also says,

"Foolish man, do you want proof that faith alone will not save you?"

It all comes down to whether you are a Pauline theologian or a Petrine theologian. Protestants tend to be more Pauline, emphasising the value of faith. Non-Protestants tend to be more Petrine, emphasising the value of works. The fact is that the Holy Scriptures do not give their 100% support to either theory, instead they express the value of both faith and works as equal.

It works both ways. One needs both to recieve salvation. Works are not just an expression of our faith. They are valuable on their own merit. The point is that works by themselves aren't able to save. Then again, my faith alone isn't able to save either. Only the mercy of God can save.

But, why would someone bother doing works in the name of God if they did not believe in the God whom they claim to serve.

Saint Seraphim of Sarov said "Obedience is more important than fasting and prayer."

There is also the story of the monk who spoke with Satan:

Satan said to the monk:
"You fast, but I never eat. You keep vigils, but I never sleep. I am better at these things than you are. Why can I not overcome you?"

The monk said to Satan:
"You cannot overcome me because I posess one quality that you do not, and that quality is humility, the most important quality of all. Humility is the queen of all the virtues."

In a certain sense, we are all saved by works. We are saved by the works of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible says that &#8220;faith without works is dead.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Bible also says,</p>
<p>&#8220;Foolish man, do you want proof that faith alone will not save you?&#8221;</p>
<p>It all comes down to whether you are a Pauline theologian or a Petrine theologian. Protestants tend to be more Pauline, emphasising the value of faith. Non-Protestants tend to be more Petrine, emphasising the value of works. The fact is that the Holy Scriptures do not give their 100% support to either theory, instead they express the value of both faith and works as equal.</p>
<p>It works both ways. One needs both to recieve salvation. Works are not just an expression of our faith. They are valuable on their own merit. The point is that works by themselves aren&#8217;t able to save. Then again, my faith alone isn&#8217;t able to save either. Only the mercy of God can save.</p>
<p>But, why would someone bother doing works in the name of God if they did not believe in the God whom they claim to serve.</p>
<p>Saint Seraphim of Sarov said &#8220;Obedience is more important than fasting and prayer.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is also the story of the monk who spoke with Satan:</p>
<p>Satan said to the monk:<br />
&#8220;You fast, but I never eat. You keep vigils, but I never sleep. I am better at these things than you are. Why can I not overcome you?&#8221;</p>
<p>The monk said to Satan:<br />
&#8220;You cannot overcome me because I posess one quality that you do not, and that quality is humility, the most important quality of all. Humility is the queen of all the virtues.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a certain sense, we are all saved by works. We are saved by the works of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Works for obedience sake, that's the only way to go.
My encouragement is just do what God is telling you to do and get your eyes off what everybody else is doing. Unless, of course He tells you to correct, rebuke or encourage others...that's still obedience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Works for obedience sake, that&#8217;s the only way to go.<br />
My encouragement is just do what God is telling you to do and get your eyes off what everybody else is doing. Unless, of course He tells you to correct, rebuke or encourage others&#8230;that&#8217;s still obedience.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 01:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Works-for-work's-sake is certianly in vain.

I can see where some people might be slightly offended by some of these assertions, but, I'm going to leave these comments here in full, just for an avenue of community discussion.

And, although I'm certianly not in any way defending the Watchtower or JW's, I think the same comments could be made about the majority of American Christians today...  if attendance wasn't being taken; if it wasn't your week to be on the "Visitation Team", or your week to work the nursery - or if your momma or your peer from work wouldn't notice you had missed two weeks in a row....... how many of us are truly motivated out of a fear of the Lord, and out of love for Him - versus being motivated by people's opinion of us?

But, ouch - I digress.  The point here is not anything like church attendance or evangelism - it's about a fasted lifestyle devoted to prayer, the apostle's teachings, the Local Church, and the needs of others - and about contending with the Lord for the full release of the "same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead" being released through us and in us to change ourselves and the people around us by the miraculous and merciful manifest power of the Almighty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Works-for-work&#8217;s-sake is certianly in vain.</p>
<p>I can see where some people might be slightly offended by some of these assertions, but, I&#8217;m going to leave these comments here in full, just for an avenue of community discussion.</p>
<p>And, although I&#8217;m certianly not in any way defending the Watchtower or JW&#8217;s, I think the same comments could be made about the majority of American Christians today&#8230;  if attendance wasn&#8217;t being taken; if it wasn&#8217;t your week to be on the &#8220;Visitation Team&#8221;, or your week to work the nursery - or if your momma or your peer from work wouldn&#8217;t notice you had missed two weeks in a row&#8230;&#8230;. how many of us are truly motivated out of a fear of the Lord, and out of love for Him - versus being motivated by people&#8217;s opinion of us?</p>
<p>But, ouch - I digress.  The point here is not anything like church attendance or evangelism - it&#8217;s about a fasted lifestyle devoted to prayer, the apostle&#8217;s teachings, the Local Church, and the needs of others - and about contending with the Lord for the full release of the &#8220;same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead&#8221; being released through us and in us to change ourselves and the people around us by the miraculous and merciful manifest power of the Almighty.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mckinney</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mckinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 00:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>As always while reading your blog my children are climbing all over me, and dividing my attention.  No, I don't think the  things the JW's do are in the same vein, No they are doing works but I don't think they are really doing it by faith.  If they were they would not be keeping track of all the ministry they were doing. I believe It's out of some respect fear because IF they do not keep up a quota of hours every week they get reprimanded.  Works for the sake of works is vain as well.  I think if the watchtower was to tell the JW's that they no longer had to go door to door that 99.8% would stop tomorrow.  Their works are not works in faith but of responsibility or even fear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always while reading your blog my children are climbing all over me, and dividing my attention.  No, I don&#8217;t think the  things the JW&#8217;s do are in the same vein, No they are doing works but I don&#8217;t think they are really doing it by faith.  If they were they would not be keeping track of all the ministry they were doing. I believe It&#8217;s out of some respect fear because IF they do not keep up a quota of hours every week they get reprimanded.  Works for the sake of works is vain as well.  I think if the watchtower was to tell the JW&#8217;s that they no longer had to go door to door that 99.8% would stop tomorrow.  Their works are not works in faith but of responsibility or even fear.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I hope your not implying that the works of which I'm speaking are in that same vein - but, if so, I'd love to hear your thoughts, for, against, whatever - fire at will!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope your not implying that the works of which I&#8217;m speaking are in that same vein - but, if so, I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts, for, against, whatever - fire at will!</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mckinney</title>
		<link>http://www.rendyourheart.com/revelations/not-by-works/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mckinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likedaviddid.com/uncategorized/not-by-works/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Shayne and I have recently had this discussion with the Jehovah's witnesses that are coming over to our house trying to convert us. I don't know If you know but they keep time cards to show their elders how many hours in a week they do "works".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shayne and I have recently had this discussion with the Jehovah&#8217;s witnesses that are coming over to our house trying to convert us. I don&#8217;t know If you know but they keep time cards to show their elders how many hours in a week they do &#8220;works&#8221;.</p>
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